Vehicle Impounded for Speed, but No Ticket Issued


Posted by Anonymous: I was pulled over on the night of October 18 for speeding . The office pulled me over after I had stopped to make a left turn onto my street . He approached me and asked me why I was driving like a maniac? I told him I shouldn’t have passed on the double solid line but the vehicle ahead of me was going dangerously slow. I then asked how fast I was going and he said he didn’t save it on his radar but another officer said he’d seen me on the freeway exit at a road in which I was not driving on that evening. I waited for the next officer to arrive and asked him the same question, “How fast was I going sir?” He replied with “Sir, the other officer clocked you doing a high rate of speed.” No actual speed was recorded. So, after all the back and forth, I admitted to crossing a double solid and asked if the fine could be lessened. I was handed an impoundment notice and told I was going to get a speeding ticket, which I was never issued.  My truck was towed to the local towing yard for 7 days with no speeding violation ticket attached. I am confused as to what is going on and if the officer is going to mail me a ticket or make me sign one in person.


Here is the law that applies to your situation:

Impoundment of motor vehicle

251  (1) If a peace officer has reasonable grounds to believe that a person

(d) has committed an offence under section 148,

(e) has driven or operated a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or in a stunt and the peace officer intends to charge the person with a motor vehicle related Criminal Code offence or an offence under section 144 (1), 146 or 148 of this Act, orthe peace officer or another peace officer must

(g) cause the motor vehicle to be taken to and impounded at a place directed by the peace officer…

Section 148 is the section for excessive speed that you are speaking of.

There is nothing in this law requiring that you receive a violation ticket for speeding before it can be invoked. The officer may choose to apply discretion about serving the ticket, but has no discretion at all when it comes to the impoundment. As soon as he has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that you are driving at excessive speed, the impoundment must take place.

Perhaps you will be lucky and not receive an excessive speeding ticket for this. Should you have been (or still could be) served with a ticket, having it dismissed in court will not automatically nullify the impoundment. You will have to do that by having the impoundment reviewed. Unfortunately this only applies to impoundments of more than 7 days, which this is not.

From your story, it appears that radar was used to measure your speed, just that the measurement was not shown to you, or the reading mentioned. Of course, your own speedometer should have been a good indication to you about how fast you were driving.

If you take the time to read the other speed related threads here in the forum, you will see that police may make estimations that are accepted by the court, that the officer is not obliged to show the radar to the violator, and that a clock or pace is a valid method of measuring speed.

Consumer fraud lawsuits could force VW to buy back diesels that cheat on emissions tests

Volkswagen almost inevitably will have to compensate owners of diesel cars equipped with emissions-rigging software. Some legal experts say the automaker could be forced to buy back the cars altogether.

Many of the more than 200 lawsuits filed in the past few weeks allege that for seven years VW marketed four-cylinder diesel Golfs, Jettas, Beetles and Passats as clean alternatives to gas engines, knowing all along that the cars were spewing pollution that far exceeded legal limits.

In September, Volkswagen admitted to rigging emissions tests in the U.S. Earlier this month, Michael Horn, the head of its U.S. operations, told a congressional panel that VW was considering compensating owners for the lost value of their cars. He also said that it could take from one to two years to fix all the affected cars.

Seattle lawyer Steve Berman seized on that time frame when he sued VW last week in Los Angeles, seeking full restitution for owners of nearly 70,000 affected cars in California.

In a somewhat unique approach, Berman is seeking to get his clients their money back under California laws requiring automakers to guarantee emissions control parts for up to seven years or 70,000 miles. His lawsuit says that VW can’t promptly make its diesels comply with the warranty, so under a different statute it “shall either promptly replace the new motor vehicle or promptly make restitution to the buyer.”

The Environmental Protection Agency has said the VW diesels emit 10 times to 40 times the legal limit of nitrogen oxide.

“Our clients don’t want to wait a year. They don’t want to be driving a dirty car,” Berman says.

The plaintiffs make the case that the cars can’t be driven legally since they violate pollution standards, says University of Southern California law professor Greg Keating, who specializes in consumer fraud cases. Even though the EPA says the cars can legally stay on the roads, eventually states with pollution tests will force owners to comply with the law, he says.

“They can’t give me the car that they told me I was buying, and they’re forcing me to inflict environmental harm and be out of compliance with California law because of the wrong they committed,” plaintiffs can argue, says Keating.

While Berman’s lawsuit covers only cars in California, the consumer fraud argument could be made successfully nationwide, according to Keating.

He and Erik Gordon, a business professor and lawyer at the University of Michigan, say the argument for a buyback is a good way to start settlement talks.

Gordon says the first option for judges would be to make VW pay buyers the difference between the value of the cars without the cheating software and what they are now worth. That could be hard to calculate. Lawyers also could argue that buyers based their purchase on VW’s promises of clean, peppy cars, and because the repairs will hurt performance, VW must buy the cars back, he says. “You have to demonstrate to the court’s satisfaction that (money) damages won’t make you whole,” Gordon says.

Most likely, Volkswagen will settle by paying customers to avoid a drawn-out process that keeps the scandal in the news, he says. “VW is going to get clobbered one way or another,” Gordon says. As the cars get older, a buyback order is less likely because the owners got considerable use out of them, he adds.

Volkswagen wouldn’t comment on pending lawsuits.

Product buybacks are rare, but not unheard of. In a July agreement with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Fiat Chrysler agreed to make buyback offers to owners of more than 500,000 Ram pickup trucks and other vehicles. The Rams have defective steering parts, and some previous repair attempts failed.

Last month, Volkswagen admitted that 482,000 cars in the U.S. from the 2009 to 2015 model years have software that programs them to cheat on emissions tests. It later acknowledged that the same software was on 11 million cars worldwide.

The 482,000 cars are worth an average of $14,466, ranging from $8,409 for a 2009 Jetta to $21,474 for a 2015 Passat, according to Kelley Blue Book. At the average resale value, VW could be forced to pay more than $6.9 billion to repurchase the cars. That amount would cover most of the $7.3 billion that VW has set aside for the emissions scandal.

“It’s really enormous for VW to have to buy these things back,” Keating says. “But maybe they will have to.”

Some owners might forgo a buyback. Under California law, they have the option of getting a replacement vehicle.

Horn said whatever solution VW comes up with could require a compromise from car owners. He said the EPA mileage estimates probably wouldn’t change, but the fix could hurt the cars’ performance.

Attorneys now are vying to lead the cases, which can become very lucrative for lawyers. Lawyers usually get about 30 per cent of class-action settlements.


More trouble for Volkswagen: Software in 2016 diesels could help exhaust systems test cleaner

U.S. regulators say they have a lot more questions for Volkswagen, triggered by the company’s recent disclosure of additional suspect software in 2016 diesel models that potentially would help exhaust systems run cleaner during government tests.

That’s more bad news for VW dealers looking for new cars to replace the ones they can no longer sell because of the worldwide cheating scandal already engulfing the world’s largest automaker. And, depending on what the Environmental Protection Agency eventually finds, it raises the possibility of even more severe punishment.

Volkswagen confirmed to The Associated Press on Tuesday that the “auxiliary emissions control device” at issue operates differently from the “defeat” device software included in the company’s 2009 to 2015 models disclosed last month.

The new software was first revealed to Environmental Protection Agency and California regulators on Sept. 29, prompting the company last week to withdraw applications for approval to sell the 2016 cars in the U.S.

“We have a long list of questions for VW about this,” said Janet McCabe, acting assistant EPA administrator for air quality. “We’re getting some answers from them, but we do not have all the answers yet.”

The delay means that thousands of 2016 Beetles, Golfs and Jettas will remain quarantined in U.S. ports until a fix can be developed, approved and implemented. Diesel versions of the Passat sedan manufactured at the company’s plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, also are on hold.

Volkswagen already faces a criminal investigation and billions of dollars in fines for violating the Clean Air Act for its earlier emissions cheat, as well as a raft of state investigations and class-action lawsuits filed on behalf of customers.

If EPA rules the new software is a second defeat device specifically aimed at gaming government emissions tests, it would call into question repeated assertions by top VW executives that responsibility for the cheating scheme lay with a handful of rogue software developers who wrote the illegal code installed in prior generations of its four-cylinder diesel engines.

That a separate device was included in the redesigned 2016 cars could suggest a multi-year effort by the company to influence U.S. emissions tests that continued even after regulators began pressing the company last year about irregularities with the emissions produced by the older cars.

The software at issue makes a pollution-control catalyst heat up faster, improving performance of the device that separates smog-causing nitrogen oxide into harmless nitrogen and oxygen gases.

“This has the function of a warmup strategy which is subject to approval by the agencies,” said Jeannine Ginivan, a VW spokeswoman. “The agencies are currently evaluating this and Volkswagen is submitting additional information.”

Automakers routinely place auxiliary emissions control devices on passenger vehicles, though they are required by law to disclose them as part of the process to receive the emissions certifications that are required to sell the cars.

EPA’s McCabe wouldn’t say if VW’s failure to disclose the software in its 2016 applications was illegal. “I don’t want to speak to any potential subjects of an enforcement activity,” she said.

If VW was cheating a second time, that would probably mean higher fines against the company, said Kelley Blue Book Senior Analyst Karl Brauer.

Regulators are “going to be even more angry than they already are,” Brauer said. “The punitive actions from the EPA are only going to get more aggressive.”

The German automaker already faces up to $18 billion in potential fines over the nearly half-million vehicles sold with the initial emissions-rigging software.

AP first reported Oct. 7 that the EPA and California Air Resources Board were investigating “the nature and purpose” of additional software on the new VW models, but at the time both the company and regulators declined to provide details about what the device does or how it works.

Volkswagen of America CEO Michael Horn said in congressional testimony last week that the German automaker had withdrawn applications seeking certification of its 2016 diesels because of on-board software that hadn’t been disclosed to regulators. However, Horn’s statement left unclear whether the issue with the 2016 models was the same as that in the earlier models, or whether it potentially constituted a new violation.

A congressional staffer briefed on the issue told AP that VW probably didn’t need the additional software to meet government emissions standards, but that the device appears intended to ensure the 2016 cars would pass inspection by wider margins. The staffer spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk publicly about the ongoing investigation.

VW is now working with regulators to continue the certification process needed to sell its 2016 diesel cars.


Winter tires key to driving safety for work and leisure

Read more

MPI: 75 per cent of vehicle thefts in Manitoba involve keys left inside

WINNIPEG – Manitoba drivers are making it easy for thieves to steal their vehicles.

That’s according to Manitoba Public Insurance, which launched an awareness campaign Wednesday to urge people to keep their keys in secure areas at all times.

The Crown corporation says of the 400 vehicles stolen this past spring, 75 per cent of them involved the use of keys.

MPI says key-related thefts in this spring increased 11 per cent, compared to the spring of 2014.

Minister Gord Mackintosh says immobilizers have helped reduce auto theft rates and that over the past 10 years, auto thefts in Winnipeg have declined 85 per cent.

MPI’s Ward Keith said immobilizers are only effective if thieves don’t have access to a vehicle’s keys.

“For public safety it’s important to eliminate the opportunity for these crimes,” said Keith.

“Stolen vehicles are typically driven dangerously, potentially endangering the lives of innocent motorist, pedestrians and cyclists.”

Winnipeg police Detective Cory McKillop said leaving keys inside or leaving your vehicle running makes it an easy target _ thieves “car hop”, or try to open doors to several cars in the same area.

McKillop said police have learned through interviews with car thieves that about one in every 10 cars checked by thieves has keys inside.

With winter right around the corner, CAA Manitoba said vehicles only need a couple minutes to warm up.

“There is no reason to leave your keys in the ignition,” said Mike Mager, CAA Manitoba president and CEO, in a news release.

“To reduce warm-up time, plug your vehicle in when it’s colder than -18 C.”

When MPI was asked if that means vehicle owners shouldn’t warm up their cars, Keith said they shouldn’t leave the vehicle running unattended.



Costs from scandal piling up for VW, with spot as No. 1 carmaker likely to be lost

By David McHugh And Pan Pylas


FRANKFURT – For Volkswagen, the cost of its cheating on emissions tests in the U.S. is likely to run into the tens of billions of dollars and prematurely end its long-sought status as the world’s biggest carmaker.

As well as fines from governments, Volkswagen faces the massive expense of recalling up to 11 million cars globally.

Already the company has set aside 6.5 billion euros ($7.3 billion) to cover the fines and recalls — but it’s a fair bet that’s only the start. Some experts estimate the bill could ultimately be five times as large.

Beyond initial charges, the company is expected to suffer a drop in sales. And the damage to the brand’s image could take years to heal.

“This is damaging stuff that goes way beyond negligence and incompetence,” said Jeremy Robinson-Leon, principal and chief operating officer at New York-based PR firm Group Gordon. “The issue here is fraud and pretty brazen fraud at that.”

Here’s a look at the financial reckoning the Wolfsburg, Germany-based automaker will face. The blows could fall in multiple areas.



The costs of fines, lawsuits and recalls are hard to estimate but have the potential to snowball.

Marc-Rene Tonn, an analyst at Warburg Research, says they could ultimately exceed 35 billion euros ($39 billion).

A chunk of that would come from fines from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, which could amount to as much as $18 billion. In theory, each of the 482,000 cars identified as having the deceptive software could be slapped with a $37,500 penalty. The actual fine will likely be much lower if the company co-operates with authorities. Tonn says it could reach 12.5 billion euros ($14 billion).

The carmaker faces dozens of lawsuits from U.S. states and counties. One county in Texas is seeking penalties worth $100 million, and that’s just one lawsuit.

Volkswagen may also face fines in other countries where it sold such rigged cars if there is evidence it cheated on emissions tests there, too. It is being investigated in Germany and other European countries.

Customers who feel cheated are going after Volkswagen as well, with several class-action lawsuits already filed in the U.S. and Europe. That could amount to billions more in damages.

And the cost of recalling and fixing the cars could run 2 billion euros ($2.2 billion) beyond what Volkswagen set aside, Tonn wrote in a research note to investors.

As a result, analysts are predicting a serious hit to Volkswagen’s profits.

Tonn halved his profit forecast for this year to 6.4 billion euros. For 2016, he reduced it to 11.0 billion euros from 15.7 billion euros.

Volkswagen has strong finances, starting with 20 billion euros in net industrial cash. It needs to keep at least 10 billion euros of that however to maintain its credit rating.



Volkswagen is expected to see a drop in interest in its cars because of the scandal, especially in the United States.

Already in September, Volkswagen’s sales in the U.S. barely grew despite the wider market’s double-digit growth, as it had to halt sales of many diesel vehicles.

Auto analyst Ferdinand Dudenhoeffer at the University of Duisburg-Essen estimates that Volkswagen could see vehicle sales fall by up to 10 per cent globally next year.

Earnings could take a bigger hit, as the company may have to hold down prices through purchasing incentives in order to maintain sales.

To make matters worse, the scandal comes just as demand is slowing in China, where Volkswagen’s brands are heavily exposed.

As for the company’s strategic goal of maintaining its lead over Toyota as the world’s biggest automaker, Dudenhoeffer says, “Forget about it.”

Toyota’s 10.23 million vehicles edged Volkswagen’s 10.14 million last year, though Volkswagen pulled ahead in the first six months of this year.

Dudenhoeffer said it would take Volkswagen at least five years to have another chance at passing Toyota.



The scandal has caused Volkswagen’s shares to drop by about 40 per cent, lopping off about 30 billion euros ($33 billion) from the company’s market value.

That hit has been taken mostly by its big shareholders: the Piech and Porsche families, who control over 50 per cent of the company, and the other major shareholders: the state of Lower Saxony and Qatar Holdings.



Perhaps the worst news for Volkswagen relates to the erosion of its brand — the intangible value of built up over decades.

The scandal has wiped $10 billion off the value of Volkswagen’s $31 billion brand, according to Brand Finance, a London-based firm that values corporate names by estimating what a company would have had to pay to license it if it didn’t already own it. The damage could be worse than that suffered by Toyota over unintended vehicle acceleration.

Volkswagen’s carefully tended brand means it has been able to charge more for the equivalent vehicle than competitors — a key driver of profit in the highly competitive market for basic transportation. Morgan Stanley estimated that weaker pricing could cost up to 4 billion euros in lost earnings next year.

Rebuilding trust will take time and money, including advertising.

Ioannis Ioannou, assistant professor of strategy and entrepreneurship at London Business School, said one thing Volkswagen could do is to invest in emissions testing in collaboration with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

“Recovery will not be quick and will take time,” he said. “Volkswagen must be prepared to heavily invest in this recovery to bring back the trust and integrity it needs to survive.”


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